I noticed a couple of days ago that our flat is looking grubby. We've both tidied and cleaned up and yes, mopped up the baby sick, constantly swept up thousands of sticky lime flowers that coat the front path, etc but big things haven't been done, no dusting, no dirty fingermarks wiped off paintwork, oven not cleaned, etc. and I sure didn't help by carrying a Christmas tree in a pot between two floors, shedding showers of dead needles into places that you wouldn't think needles could get into.
So our happy home had gone way past the description of "shabby chic," "home-like," "relaxed," and was edging into "ick" territory. Since we've got house guests arriving shortly I decided to hire in a cleaner from an agency at ten pounds an hour. I just wanted the floors cleaned PROPERLY, kitchen taps shining, and all those lurking pine needles discovered and disposed of.
I asked for five hours, and the cleaner came along a bit early, after travelling an hour and a half from the other side of London. I told her what to do, she nodded, I left her to it and for five hours I heard her working hard. Every now and then I looked in on her and saw the dusting was getting done and so on. I tried to talk to her and realised she didn't speak much English.
At the end of the five hours, she was ready to go. She asked me to look at her work and see it was OK as the agency would ask me for feedback. "I've only just begun this job" she said, "it's important to me to get good feedback."
Well, I took a look around and I was dismayed. She was supposed to have washed the kitchen floor - it wasn't wet. I asked why not and she explained she had wiped it over on hands and knees with a damp cloth, rather than using the mop. She hadn't known how to use the oven cleaner because she couldn't understand the instructions. Nor did she use the right tools and materials for other jobs. She hadn't noticed dust in some of the corners, and I found many pine needles lurking. She'd left dried watermarks all over the showers and taps. She had worked constantly, but she didn't know how to clean in a professional way, she was disorganised and obviously her standards just weren't that high.
I couldn't have begun to tell her what was wrong with her work. But the house was better than before, even though it hadn't been the proper clean I had hoped for. So I just said "OK" and off she went on her 90 minute return trip. An eight hour day for whatever proportion of my fifty pounds was left for her after the agency had taken their cut.
I decided to tell the agency that she couldn't clean.... but hesitated. You know what would happen - they wouldn't train her or help, they just wouldn't use her again. There's loads of poor people who need to work for next to nothing. Why train one or deal with her problems when they could just find someone else? She wasn't lazy, she was nice, she was just a young untrained woman far from home working hard but just not very good.
I think I know what I am going to do when the agency contacts me for feedback in the next few days. But just wondered what you would do?
So our happy home had gone way past the description of "shabby chic," "home-like," "relaxed," and was edging into "ick" territory. Since we've got house guests arriving shortly I decided to hire in a cleaner from an agency at ten pounds an hour. I just wanted the floors cleaned PROPERLY, kitchen taps shining, and all those lurking pine needles discovered and disposed of.
I asked for five hours, and the cleaner came along a bit early, after travelling an hour and a half from the other side of London. I told her what to do, she nodded, I left her to it and for five hours I heard her working hard. Every now and then I looked in on her and saw the dusting was getting done and so on. I tried to talk to her and realised she didn't speak much English.
At the end of the five hours, she was ready to go. She asked me to look at her work and see it was OK as the agency would ask me for feedback. "I've only just begun this job" she said, "it's important to me to get good feedback."
Well, I took a look around and I was dismayed. She was supposed to have washed the kitchen floor - it wasn't wet. I asked why not and she explained she had wiped it over on hands and knees with a damp cloth, rather than using the mop. She hadn't known how to use the oven cleaner because she couldn't understand the instructions. Nor did she use the right tools and materials for other jobs. She hadn't noticed dust in some of the corners, and I found many pine needles lurking. She'd left dried watermarks all over the showers and taps. She had worked constantly, but she didn't know how to clean in a professional way, she was disorganised and obviously her standards just weren't that high.
I couldn't have begun to tell her what was wrong with her work. But the house was better than before, even though it hadn't been the proper clean I had hoped for. So I just said "OK" and off she went on her 90 minute return trip. An eight hour day for whatever proportion of my fifty pounds was left for her after the agency had taken their cut.
I decided to tell the agency that she couldn't clean.... but hesitated. You know what would happen - they wouldn't train her or help, they just wouldn't use her again. There's loads of poor people who need to work for next to nothing. Why train one or deal with her problems when they could just find someone else? She wasn't lazy, she was nice, she was just a young untrained woman far from home working hard but just not very good.
I think I know what I am going to do when the agency contacts me for feedback in the next few days. But just wondered what you would do?
Wow, that's difficult! In my view, the agency is at fault for sending somebody to do a job for which they are not trained or qualified, ie basically unable to do. The agency should have checked the quality of her work before employing her. Or, at least, before sending her out. But what to do? What to tell the agency about her? It would need the wisdom of Solomon to get that right - and I'm not Solomon! That being the case, I think I would tell them pretty much what I've written here, that it is them, the agency, who are not up to standard.
ReplyDeleteThat's a tough one. Personally, I'm always overly nice and I'm very hesitant to tell people that they did substandard work. However, someone needs to know the truth. The young woman is getting paid for a job that she obviously didn't do well. I would definitely let the agency know the truth - - in a tactful way (if possible).
ReplyDeleteI've always found that it's best to do things myself, rather than rely on others.
If she's in the cleaning business she needs to understand cleaning. Either her agency will teach her, she will figure it out or she will find her job. In my opinion the agency owes you a cleaning job.
ReplyDeleteI would give decent feedback, but not over praise. I'm like you, I'd realize she was doing the best that she knew how and I wouldn't want to be the cause of her losing her job. Hopefully she'll learn as she goes.
ReplyDeleteI once had a cleaner who only spoke Spanish, my Spanish is decent, but still things got lost in translation.
She once used something like oven cleaner to clean an antique dining table and it has taken years of Old English dark polish to semi restore the finish she took off. But I kept her, hid all harsh cleaning products and appreciated how hard she worked.
Hello Jenny:
ReplyDeleteA very difficult situation. We think in the circumstances, and given the cleaner's probable need of work, we should major with the agency on her prompt arrival, the fact that she worked the entire five hours, that she was pleasant to deal with and that the apartment was much improved as a result of her visit. As one of our mothers would frequently remark, "One cannot get the staff since the War."
I suppose I'd just give a bit of positive feedback. Training at any job is a gradual thing --she'll doubtless learn more efficient methods by and by.
ReplyDeleteThis is tough... I feel for the woman who needs the work and the money. And you are probably correct - the agency won't train her.
ReplyDeleteWhat would happen if you give honest feedback? They won't use her any more.
What would happen if you give her good marks? The next client, or another one afterwards, will give honest feedback, and they won't use her any more.
If I had any plans to use this same agency again in the future, I would probably give honest feedback...and be as gentle and tactful as possible.
It sucks to be working at a job when you don't do it well, however much energy you put in. But passing on the problem isn't fair to anyone, other clients who hire her, the business that she represents, and ultimately, not to her. If you are the first to approach the company, saying that she is hard working, but needs to work with another housekeeper to learn the job, that is the best chance she has to succeed. They may fire her, but you don't know that they won't try to work with her.
ReplyDeleteGive the company a chance to make it right as well, offer to let her come back with a more experienced cleaner. Because as is, you are not going to use them again, right?
I would tell them everything that you told us. I have friends here in the US who own their own cleaning business. They want to know that info because of the next client or even previous clients who might have complained. Your complaint will confirm other complaints and hopefully prevent another complaint from the next client. And yes, they would 'retrain' the person on what they need to do to make it better.
ReplyDeleteI would say that this woman had excellent manners and a winning personality that will only improve when her English improves, but she needs a bit more cleaning related training in order to become a sterling employee.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if you have the time, but I'd ask to have her back and then I'd show her a few of the ropes. She was obviously a hard working girl and if she was eager to do well, she'd learn. She needs a break, so that's what I think I'd do.
ReplyDeleteThat's a tough one. I might have been inclined to tell the cleaner that she should concentrate on a few points. That way she'll still have a job to go to and she'd do a better job for the next person. Maybe the next client might not be so understanding.
ReplyDeleteI manage a staff of 14 people, and I always want customers to be honest with me about how my staff are doing. It's sweet of you to like this young woman and want the best for her, but the fact remains that she did not fulfil her responsibilities. Perhaps, if she is so friendly and likeable, she'd be better off waiting tables in a restaurant, where she could make good tips. She'll have to pick up English as she goes along no matter what she ends up doing. In the end, it's not fair to either her bosses who own the business and want to keep their standards high, or the next client who may be less sanguine than you are about their satisfaction, if you cover for her. I would advise you to be honest, and say a prayer for her to quickly find a job that she is more well-suited to.
ReplyDeleteWhat a difficult problem and conundrum you have posed. It must have been very disappointing to pay £50 and not get the results you had hoped for.
ReplyDeleteI would hate to let her down to the Agency but if you don't do it the next person will. Although I feel for her, I think that you have to be honest.
Being a janitor myself, i know i'd want to know if someone in my employ (although i work alone) weren't doing things correctly. But i'd take the time to train the person, not replace the person. It's a tough spot, knowing she may lose her job over it, but if she keeps doing poor work she will lose the job anyway.
ReplyDeleteIt's a tricky one! Good cleaners don't come about by accident but, like any skill, need training. If she were coming back to work for me again, I'd make sure I supervised and encouraged her to do things 'my' way. Hopefully the feedback isn't just tick the box style and you could say she was willing but untrained - not sure of the agency's reaction to that though.
ReplyDeleteMy comments keep disappearing. I tried to say that I honestly didn't know what I'd do. I hate to rat someone out if it seems like ignorance or poor training, but I'd also hate to just accept not getting what I paid for.
ReplyDeleteThat is a hard one. She wanted to do a good job, but just did not know how. I am sure if she was trained, she would do better. It is not her fault, but the fault of the agency. Maybe,I would call and tell her boss what was good about her, (worked hard the whole five hours, wanted to please, respectful) but also tell them that she could use a little more training in the way people from your area expect in cleaning their houses. Hopefully, they will see to it that she improves and not let her go.
ReplyDeleteSo sorry that you still have the task of picking up pine needles.
Boy, that's a tough one. On the one hand if you say nothing, surely the next person will, right? Perhaps you should tell them basically what you've written. It's not that she didn't work hard, she just needs a little training.
ReplyDelete***On the other hand, my Mother had extremely high standards....the blinds, under the bed, the baseboards, etc. Has she never thoroughly cleaned her own house/apartment? I learned all that stuff by the time I was 10.
I would be honest. I'd say she's a good worker, but that she didn't clean as well as you'd hoped. Yes, I'd feel bad wondering if she'll be fired. But it may make her realize that she needs to do a better job next time.
ReplyDeleteA rather hard question. My first impulse is to tell them; they should know when some of their employees are not really up to the job. But your point about them most likely not going to do anything to improve her work matters, too. On the other hand, as harsh as it may sound, she will never become any better at her job if she is not told. And if the agency tell her that they won't give her anymore jobs because the customers weren't too happy with her work, she'd possibly start thinking about where she could improve, and ask someone's advice. At least that is what I would do, if I had negative feedback from customers - I would want to improve and better my lot in life (with cleaning just being the beginning, and better language skills the next, very important step).
ReplyDeleteIt is easy to comment on someone else's experience with cleaners but I ask myself how I would feel if the work I wanted doing wasn't done very well. I think maybe a second chance with detailed instruction might be good. Talking of pine needles, I gave up having pine trees in the house at Christmas for that very reason. I would find needles years after I'd cleared them away ... or thought I had.
ReplyDeleteOh that is so sad - the thought of her on her hands and knees doing the floors. She obviously worked very hard. I think I would review her work by saying she worked constantly and hard and was pleasant. But you just know someone will complain about her eventually. Very sad. x
ReplyDeleteTough call. I would probably just tell the agency that she seemed a bit inexperienced and if I used them again would want a cleaner who had spent some time on the job.
ReplyDeleteDarla
Oh gosh, such a hard one. Were the agency human enough that you could suggest she maybe just be given smaller tasks (a couple of hours, or cleaning teeny flats - London has plenty) rather than longer sessions? I think I'd probably ultimately have done the same as you. The agency would probably stop using her, and then she'd lose that source of income. Honestly, it sounds as if the fault was the agency's not the individual's if she hadn't been well trained. I'd be inclined not to use the agency in the future, if they're not supporting their staff to do a good job. Hope the guests' stay has gone well!
ReplyDeleteEmployees are a reflection of the agency who employ them. It would be advantageous for someone to accompany a new hire to make sure their performance is up to expectation and give help when needed. I think I would tell them she was a hard worker, has great potential, but needs some direction. Oh my, good luck!
ReplyDeleteIt is the agency's fault...but she will be the one to suffer.
ReplyDeleteYou could tell them how hardworking she is, and how willing and suggest that as part of their recruitment process they have at the very least a tick box sheet on use of appropriate .
cleaning products.
Not that they will, of course.
Good question, Jenny. Probably what you would have done... Maybe when they call back say there were some spots she missed, but I'd hate to get someone fired -- and you're right -- they wouldn't train her. Tough one.
ReplyDeleteI have cleaners who are OK -- they're inexpensive ($45 every two weeks or so) but they do use the mop! And they do the things I hate to do (except windows -- they don't do windows or ovens). I know they should be better, but I like them and the price is right and I don't want to do it myself (and they're honest) so we plug along. In my note, I'm pretty detailed on what I want done and where to check if there is something new... and we get by.
Good luck.
An option would be to tell them that you see her potential and hope they keep her on but that she requires more training and perhaps should work with someone more experienced for a while.
ReplyDeleteGoodness, that's a tough one. You wanted a clean house and could reasonably be miffed it wasn't sparkling. But the agency will cut corners if it can - and the only way that might stop is a bit of naming and shaming (I suspect you've deliberately not done that).
ReplyDeleteI had cleaners in when I last moved house - and then asked the people who moved in whether it was good enough. No really, they said. I live in a small town, so word of mouth is effective here. But in London - it's much harder.
I agree with the above comment. It IS the agency's fault but dammit, that probably won't change the fact that with enough negative feedback on this one woman, she'll be fired and another person hired to take her place.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a very universal situation and as always, the backs of the poor, uneducated, the immigrants and mostly the women bear the brunt of the problem.
It is a quandary. I can understand you not wanting to get the woman sacked, but the agency should be made aware of their own shortcomings. The agency is as fault, as are any employers who don't train their staff correctly.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the best way to approach the problem is for you, personally, pay a visit to the boss/owner of the agency and have a quiet, calm discussion with him/her or them. I'd say it's not just that one poor employee who was sent to you who is having problems...I'd hazard a guess and say her lack of knowledge probably extends to some of her other co-workers.
With your experience in tourism/hospitality etc., Jenny...I feel sure you're well-capable of handling such a delicate matter. I know it doesn't make it any easier...but until something concrete is done about it...the problem just keeps multiplying. I'm sorry you have to be the one...but I think you might just have to be that one.
Oh dear, poor Jenny I completely understand your disappointment. I'm with Jane and Lance, but sadly the woman will likely be let go anyhow as there will be a client who will complain. So the inevitable will happen.
ReplyDeleteYour commenter Brighton Pensioner has it right too - the Agency needs to be held responsible certainly not the worker.
-small chuckle- the moral to the whole story is, do it yourself!
Enjoy your week Jenny, I know you'll be busy! ;)
I think I would mention her good points first and then mention she needed some more training on the on the cleaning standers of UK. but as nicely as possible.
ReplyDeletecheers, parsnip
What a dilemma! I do not envy you, but I do not think that it would have been unrealistic to expect the cleaner to ask for help if she did not know how to use the equipment provided and her English was not up to understanding the instructions on the cleaning materials. If she does not ask she will not learn.
ReplyDeleteIf you are willing to closely supervise her work and instruct her on what to do the next time, you could be helping her to actually do her work. If she is unwilling to learn, you would be just reinforcing bad habits by continuing to put up with her.
ReplyDeleteHonest but nice. Requiring better training and better English. It will not affect the lass herself as the agency will just take the cash anyway. She will soon get another underpaid job somewhere. Agencies care little sadly.
ReplyDeleteMind you I bet your place is still better than mine before she came
I would spend the time showing her exactly what I wanted. She seems to have the right work ethic so just needs to be shown what is expected of her. The agency takes 40% of her fee.
ReplyDeleteOh gosh, a bit of a tricky one isn't it. I suppose I would explain her good points and perhaps suggest she may need a bit of training. I am sure you were glad to get a bit of help though, even if you did have to pay for it. Much love, Linda x
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't use that agency again. However, as for "feedback" companies always seem to crave these days about their staff, If someone's doing a thankless job on low pay and their employer wants feedback, I just tell them good things.
ReplyDeleteAttempted to post a reply here but seems like I'm not using the app right.
ReplyDeleteWill try again when I get better signal! But thanks for the wise and thoughtful comments
ReplyDeleteLet your heart speak Jenny! I know you will find the right words.
ReplyDeleteGod bless,
Hi Jenny, I'm late in joining the discussion, but wanted to say how caring you are in considering this lady's situation.
ReplyDeleteIt is a real dilemma and such a shame that a willing worker doesn't know the techniques of cleaning because that's all that's missing isn't it. I'd tell the agency exactly that - emphasising how willing, pleasant and hardworking she is but that she just needs a little guidance in technique. The next person she works for may not be so kind.
Hope you came to a decision you were happy with - lots of good input in comments above. Cheers now :D)
Here, agents or companies which want feedback from clients or customers usually use it to live up to better customers' satisfaction by improving workers' qualities and not to fire them. I think honest feedback might be helpful for them to have a good reputation eventually.
ReplyDeleteI'd hesitate to be too honest if this is not the case here, however, like every one says I hope you can tactfully deal with this problem.
A tough decision. I have no idea what I would do. Which I guess is why I run myself ragged doing my own cleaning.
ReplyDeleteBut this reminds me of a story I once heard about an Edwardian housewife who had to give a reference for a maid who was totally unsatisfactory: "If you get Mrs. B. to work for you, you will be very lucky!"
I would talk to her in person and tell her just that: you are dissatisfied, but can't continue using her services if they don't improve. That you don't believe the agency will train her, but you are willing to. Yes, it would take time and an uncomfortable discussion on your part, but it is such a chance to help someone. Then, it is up to her. If she doesn't want to learn - cut her loose. If she does - wow - you might have changed her life at the price of an afternoon's training.
ReplyDelete